From amorimlb at gmail.com Sat Oct 23 20:32:05 2010 From: amorimlb at gmail.com (Lucas Amorim) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:32:05 -0300 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient Message-ID: Hello, I don't know if this is the appropriate mailing list, if not, please point me to the right one. Or just answer me :D I am trying to use jmoby for a datamining project I am in, but, before diving into the real task, I would like to run the FeatureClient example they have, but when I try to run it like this: java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors I can't understand (C++ programmer), such as: neutron:featureClient lucas$ java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/axis/AxisFault at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.FeatureClient.(FeatureClient.java:93) at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.SimpleSingleCall.main(SimpleSingleCall.java:18) at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.FeatureClientFactory.main(FeatureClientFactory.java:40) Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.axis.AxisFault at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:202) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:190) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307) at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:248) ... 3 more neutron:featureClient lucas$ Can you please help me? I have tried it with different sun java versions and also on mac (above) and on linux. Thanks in advance! Lucas Amorim Instituto de Computa??o Universidade Federal de Alagoas Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 Linux User #425305 From martin.senger at gmail.com Sat Oct 23 20:40:49 2010 From: martin.senger at gmail.com (Martin Senger) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 03:40:49 +0300 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, example they have, but when I try to run it like this: java -jar > FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors > I can't understand (C++ programmer) Being a C++ programmer you definitely understand how important is to have all header files when compiling a source. In Java, it is similar: you need to have not one but usually many jar files - and all of them must be defined by an environment variable CLASSPATH (or directly on the java command-line). In your case: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: > org/apache/axis/AxisFault > ...tha AxisFault class is missing. But I assume that perhaps more classes may be missing. Sorry for only a vague answer; I guess somebody will give you more details. Martin -- Martin Senger email: martin.senger at gmail.com,martin.senger at kaust.edu.sa skype: martinsenger From guilhem.sempere at cirad.fr Mon Oct 25 03:31:06 2010 From: guilhem.sempere at cirad.fr (Guilhem Sempere) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:31:06 +0200 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC5323A.5080507@cirad.fr> Maybe I can give you this little tip : http://www.findjar.com is useful when you know which class is missing but don't know which jar it can be found in (it happens a lot). Le 24/10/2010 02:40, Martin Senger a ?crit : > Hi, > > example they have, but when I try to run it like this: java -jar > FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors >> I can't understand (C++ programmer) > > Being a C++ programmer you definitely understand how important is to have > all header files when compiling a source. In Java, it is similar: you need > to have not one but usually many jar files - and all of them must be defined > by an environment variable CLASSPATH (or directly on the java command-line). > In your case: > > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: > org/apache/axis/AxisFault > ...tha AxisFault class is missing. But I assume that perhaps more classes > may be missing. > > Sorry for only a vague answer; I guess somebody will give you more details. > Martin > From edward.kawas at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 09:22:12 2010 From: edward.kawas at gmail.com (Edward Kawas) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 06:22:12 -0700 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <014d01cb7447$a3459ee0$e9d0dca0$@gmail.com> Hi Lucas, Look at the following page: http://biomoby.open-bio.org/CVS_CONTENT/moby-live/Java/docs/FeatureClient.ht ml Unfortunately, like Martin said, there are many dependencies required for most of the biomoby functionality and so you cannot simply run most clients using java -jar. Eddie -----Original Message----- From: moby-dev-bounces at lists.open-bio.org [mailto:moby-dev-bounces at lists.open-bio.org] On Behalf Of Lucas Amorim Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:32 PM To: moby-dev at lists.open-bio.org Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient Hello, I don't know if this is the appropriate mailing list, if not, please point me to the right one. Or just answer me :D I am trying to use jmoby for a datamining project I am in, but, before diving into the real task, I would like to run the FeatureClient example they have, but when I try to run it like this: java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors I can't understand (C++ programmer), such as: neutron:featureClient lucas$ java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/axis/AxisFault at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.FeatureClient.(FeatureClient.java: 93) at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.SimpleSingleCall.main(SimpleSingleC all.java:18) at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.FeatureClientFactory.main(FeatureCl ientFactory.java:40) Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.axis.AxisFault at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:202) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:190) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307) at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:248) ... 3 more neutron:featureClient lucas$ Can you please help me? I have tried it with different sun java versions and also on mac (above) and on linux. Thanks in advance! Lucas Amorim Instituto de Computa??o Universidade Federal de Alagoas Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 Linux User #425305 _______________________________________________ MOBY-dev mailing list MOBY-dev at lists.open-bio.org http://lists.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/moby-dev From amorimlb at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 09:50:12 2010 From: amorimlb at gmail.com (Lucas Amorim) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:50:12 -0300 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: <014d01cb7447$a3459ee0$e9d0dca0$@gmail.com> References: <014d01cb7447$a3459ee0$e9d0dca0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, I think I'll have some trouble setting it up yet. Thank you! Lucas Amorim Instituto de Computa??o Universidade Federal de Alagoas Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 Linux User #425305 On 25 October 2010 10:22, Edward Kawas wrote: > Hi Lucas, > > Look at the following page: > > http://biomoby.open-bio.org/CVS_CONTENT/moby-live/Java/docs/FeatureClient.ht > ml > > Unfortunately, like Martin said, there are many dependencies required for > most of the biomoby functionality and so you cannot simply run most clients > using java -jar. > > Eddie > > -----Original Message----- > From: moby-dev-bounces at lists.open-bio.org > [mailto:moby-dev-bounces at lists.open-bio.org] On Behalf Of Lucas Amorim > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:32 PM > To: moby-dev at lists.open-bio.org > Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient > > Hello, > > I don't know if this is the appropriate mailing list, if not, please point > me to the right one. Or just answer me :D I am trying to use jmoby for a > datamining project I am in, but, before diving into the real task, I would > like to run the FeatureClient example they have, but when I try to run it > like this: ?java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of > java related errors I can't understand (C++ programmer), such as: > > neutron:featureClient lucas$ java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: > org/apache/axis/AxisFault > ? ? ? ?at > de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.FeatureClient.(FeatureClient.java: > 93) > ? ? ? ?at > de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.SimpleSingleCall.main(SimpleSingleC > all.java:18) > ? ? ? ?at > de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.FeatureClientFactory.main(FeatureCl > ientFactory.java:40) > Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.axis.AxisFault > ? ? ? ?at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:202) > ? ? ? ?at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) > ? ? ? ?at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:190) > ? ? ? ?at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307) > ? ? ? ?at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301) > ? ? ? ?at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:248) > ? ? ? ?... 3 more > neutron:featureClient lucas$ > > Can you please help me? I have tried it with different sun java versions and > also on mac (above) and on linux. > > Thanks in advance! > > Lucas Amorim > > Instituto de Computa??o > Universidade Federal de Alagoas > Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 > > Linux User #425305 > > _______________________________________________ > MOBY-dev mailing list > MOBY-dev at lists.open-bio.org > http://lists.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/moby-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > MOBY-dev mailing list > MOBY-dev at lists.open-bio.org > http://lists.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/moby-dev > From amorimlb at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 09:50:31 2010 From: amorimlb at gmail.com (Lucas Amorim) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:50:31 -0300 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: <4CC5323A.5080507@cirad.fr> References: <4CC5323A.5080507@cirad.fr> Message-ID: Thank you Guilhem, I am going to look at this!! Lucas Amorim Instituto de Computa??o Universidade Federal de Alagoas Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 Linux User #425305 On 25 October 2010 04:31, Guilhem Sempere wrote: > Maybe I can give you this little tip : http://www.findjar.com is useful when > you know which class is missing but don't know which jar it can be found in > (it happens a lot). > > > > Le 24/10/2010 02:40, Martin Senger a ?crit : >> >> Hi, >> >> example they have, but when I try to run it like this: ?java -jar >> FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors >>> >>> I can't understand (C++ programmer) >> >> Being a C++ programmer you definitely understand how important is to have >> all header files when compiling a source. In Java, it is similar: you need >> to have not one but usually many jar files - and all of them must be >> defined >> by an environment variable CLASSPATH (or directly on the java >> command-line). >> In your case: >> >> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: >> org/apache/axis/AxisFault >> ...tha AxisFault class is missing. But I assume that perhaps more classes >> may be missing. >> >> Sorry for only a vague answer; I guess somebody will give you more >> details. >> Martin >> > _______________________________________________ > MOBY-dev mailing list > MOBY-dev at lists.open-bio.org > http://lists.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/moby-dev > From amorimlb at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 00:32:05 2010 From: amorimlb at gmail.com (Lucas Amorim) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:32:05 -0300 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient Message-ID: Hello, I don't know if this is the appropriate mailing list, if not, please point me to the right one. Or just answer me :D I am trying to use jmoby for a datamining project I am in, but, before diving into the real task, I would like to run the FeatureClient example they have, but when I try to run it like this: java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors I can't understand (C++ programmer), such as: neutron:featureClient lucas$ java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/axis/AxisFault at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.FeatureClient.(FeatureClient.java:93) at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.SimpleSingleCall.main(SimpleSingleCall.java:18) at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.FeatureClientFactory.main(FeatureClientFactory.java:40) Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.axis.AxisFault at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:202) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:190) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307) at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:248) ... 3 more neutron:featureClient lucas$ Can you please help me? I have tried it with different sun java versions and also on mac (above) and on linux. Thanks in advance! Lucas Amorim Instituto de Computa??o Universidade Federal de Alagoas Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 Linux User #425305 From martin.senger at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 00:40:49 2010 From: martin.senger at gmail.com (Martin Senger) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 03:40:49 +0300 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, example they have, but when I try to run it like this: java -jar > FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors > I can't understand (C++ programmer) Being a C++ programmer you definitely understand how important is to have all header files when compiling a source. In Java, it is similar: you need to have not one but usually many jar files - and all of them must be defined by an environment variable CLASSPATH (or directly on the java command-line). In your case: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: > org/apache/axis/AxisFault > ...tha AxisFault class is missing. But I assume that perhaps more classes may be missing. Sorry for only a vague answer; I guess somebody will give you more details. Martin -- Martin Senger email: martin.senger at gmail.com,martin.senger at kaust.edu.sa skype: martinsenger From guilhem.sempere at cirad.fr Mon Oct 25 07:31:06 2010 From: guilhem.sempere at cirad.fr (Guilhem Sempere) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:31:06 +0200 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC5323A.5080507@cirad.fr> Maybe I can give you this little tip : http://www.findjar.com is useful when you know which class is missing but don't know which jar it can be found in (it happens a lot). Le 24/10/2010 02:40, Martin Senger a ?crit : > Hi, > > example they have, but when I try to run it like this: java -jar > FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors >> I can't understand (C++ programmer) > > Being a C++ programmer you definitely understand how important is to have > all header files when compiling a source. In Java, it is similar: you need > to have not one but usually many jar files - and all of them must be defined > by an environment variable CLASSPATH (or directly on the java command-line). > In your case: > > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: > org/apache/axis/AxisFault > ...tha AxisFault class is missing. But I assume that perhaps more classes > may be missing. > > Sorry for only a vague answer; I guess somebody will give you more details. > Martin > From edward.kawas at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 13:22:12 2010 From: edward.kawas at gmail.com (Edward Kawas) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 06:22:12 -0700 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <014d01cb7447$a3459ee0$e9d0dca0$@gmail.com> Hi Lucas, Look at the following page: http://biomoby.open-bio.org/CVS_CONTENT/moby-live/Java/docs/FeatureClient.ht ml Unfortunately, like Martin said, there are many dependencies required for most of the biomoby functionality and so you cannot simply run most clients using java -jar. Eddie -----Original Message----- From: moby-dev-bounces at lists.open-bio.org [mailto:moby-dev-bounces at lists.open-bio.org] On Behalf Of Lucas Amorim Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:32 PM To: moby-dev at lists.open-bio.org Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient Hello, I don't know if this is the appropriate mailing list, if not, please point me to the right one. Or just answer me :D I am trying to use jmoby for a datamining project I am in, but, before diving into the real task, I would like to run the FeatureClient example they have, but when I try to run it like this: java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors I can't understand (C++ programmer), such as: neutron:featureClient lucas$ java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/axis/AxisFault at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.FeatureClient.(FeatureClient.java: 93) at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.SimpleSingleCall.main(SimpleSingleC all.java:18) at de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.FeatureClientFactory.main(FeatureCl ientFactory.java:40) Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.axis.AxisFault at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:202) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:190) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307) at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:248) ... 3 more neutron:featureClient lucas$ Can you please help me? I have tried it with different sun java versions and also on mac (above) and on linux. Thanks in advance! Lucas Amorim Instituto de Computa??o Universidade Federal de Alagoas Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 Linux User #425305 _______________________________________________ MOBY-dev mailing list MOBY-dev at lists.open-bio.org http://lists.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/moby-dev From amorimlb at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 13:50:12 2010 From: amorimlb at gmail.com (Lucas Amorim) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:50:12 -0300 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: <014d01cb7447$a3459ee0$e9d0dca0$@gmail.com> References: <014d01cb7447$a3459ee0$e9d0dca0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, I think I'll have some trouble setting it up yet. Thank you! Lucas Amorim Instituto de Computa??o Universidade Federal de Alagoas Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 Linux User #425305 On 25 October 2010 10:22, Edward Kawas wrote: > Hi Lucas, > > Look at the following page: > > http://biomoby.open-bio.org/CVS_CONTENT/moby-live/Java/docs/FeatureClient.ht > ml > > Unfortunately, like Martin said, there are many dependencies required for > most of the biomoby functionality and so you cannot simply run most clients > using java -jar. > > Eddie > > -----Original Message----- > From: moby-dev-bounces at lists.open-bio.org > [mailto:moby-dev-bounces at lists.open-bio.org] On Behalf Of Lucas Amorim > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:32 PM > To: moby-dev at lists.open-bio.org > Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient > > Hello, > > I don't know if this is the appropriate mailing list, if not, please point > me to the right one. Or just answer me :D I am trying to use jmoby for a > datamining project I am in, but, before diving into the real task, I would > like to run the FeatureClient example they have, but when I try to run it > like this: ?java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of > java related errors I can't understand (C++ programmer), such as: > > neutron:featureClient lucas$ java -jar FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: > org/apache/axis/AxisFault > ? ? ? ?at > de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.FeatureClient.(FeatureClient.java: > 93) > ? ? ? ?at > de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.SimpleSingleCall.main(SimpleSingleC > all.java:18) > ? ? ? ?at > de.mpg.mpiz_koeln.pcb.featureClient.test.FeatureClientFactory.main(FeatureCl > ientFactory.java:40) > Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.axis.AxisFault > ? ? ? ?at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:202) > ? ? ? ?at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) > ? ? ? ?at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:190) > ? ? ? ?at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307) > ? ? ? ?at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301) > ? ? ? ?at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:248) > ? ? ? ?... 3 more > neutron:featureClient lucas$ > > Can you please help me? I have tried it with different sun java versions and > also on mac (above) and on linux. > > Thanks in advance! > > Lucas Amorim > > Instituto de Computa??o > Universidade Federal de Alagoas > Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 > > Linux User #425305 > > _______________________________________________ > MOBY-dev mailing list > MOBY-dev at lists.open-bio.org > http://lists.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/moby-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > MOBY-dev mailing list > MOBY-dev at lists.open-bio.org > http://lists.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/moby-dev > From amorimlb at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 13:50:31 2010 From: amorimlb at gmail.com (Lucas Amorim) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:50:31 -0300 Subject: [MOBY-dev] Help with the featureClient In-Reply-To: <4CC5323A.5080507@cirad.fr> References: <4CC5323A.5080507@cirad.fr> Message-ID: Thank you Guilhem, I am going to look at this!! Lucas Amorim Instituto de Computa??o Universidade Federal de Alagoas Curriculum Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/2470781099632240 Linux User #425305 On 25 October 2010 04:31, Guilhem Sempere wrote: > Maybe I can give you this little tip : http://www.findjar.com is useful when > you know which class is missing but don't know which jar it can be found in > (it happens a lot). > > > > Le 24/10/2010 02:40, Martin Senger a ?crit : >> >> Hi, >> >> example they have, but when I try to run it like this: ?java -jar >> FeatureClient.jar SimpleSingleCall, i get a lot of java related errors >>> >>> I can't understand (C++ programmer) >> >> Being a C++ programmer you definitely understand how important is to have >> all header files when compiling a source. In Java, it is similar: you need >> to have not one but usually many jar files - and all of them must be >> defined >> by an environment variable CLASSPATH (or directly on the java >> command-line). >> In your case: >> >> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: >> org/apache/axis/AxisFault >> ...tha AxisFault class is missing. But I assume that perhaps more classes >> may be missing. >> >> Sorry for only a vague answer; I guess somebody will give you more >> details. >> Martin >> > _______________________________________________ > MOBY-dev mailing list > MOBY-dev at lists.open-bio.org > http://lists.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/moby-dev >